A Good one from Prairie Fire

On a slow news day, a good bit of writing is worth pointing to.  Prairie Fire;

"After being fed information from the devious Flora Jessop for four years, the state of Texas believed that it could swoop in and remove the children from the YFZ ranch, the distraught mothers would follow them out into the bossom of the benevolent CPS, and all would gladly assist their CPS liberators in securing their freedom. But the liberated children and mothers haven't been as cooperative as the state had expected them to be, so now the state is on the defensive by publicly attacking the people they claim they are trying to save and protect."

Read it all.

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Prediction on the "Next Big Thing"

It will be tomorrow. Tuesday offers the cover of the West Virginia Primary which will give the 24 hour news networks an excuse to cover something else.

It has been the pattern of Texas to announce things like Special Prosecutors and move kids on days when the news is dominated by some other event. I remain (a little) surprised that I have heard nothing on the MSM regarding the Mental Health Workers condemnation of Texas CPS. More →

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USA Today Questions Texas.

Brooke Adams over at the Salt Lake Tribune noticed a USA Today column. Hat tip to her.

"Anti-cult stereotypes can cause government to forget about some religions’ pesky First Amendment protections."

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Weekend News Roundup. What did we learn on the Blog this weekend Hugh?

All here on your friendly Modern Pharisee's blog.

Highlights....

Mark Shurtleff, the Utah Attorney General nearly begged polygyny advocates to help decriminalize the practice. Apparently he will co-operate after the election to get it reduced to traffic ticket status.

Texas Mental Health workers confirm early reports that FLDS women were being told to co-operate by going to "abused women shelters" or they would not see their children again. I can only conclude this was to gain traction for the idea that the CPS had that there were abused women. Having women report to shelters for abused women made it look like there was abuse. Also Mental health workers were fired for being too compassionate with FLDS scum. Mental health workers were appalled and horrified.

Texas in it's infinite brilliance is trying to test the idea of illegal polygyny by picking a more unsavory target, the "Yahweh" sect. Apparently they think they can go where Mark Shurtleff fears to tread.  (Update "Religion Clause" noticed this as well.)

Government can tell us if our religion is dangerous, and target it for destruction.

There is a grassroots movement afoot that is in favor of legalizing polygyny. My, um "Friend" "Mary Contrary" tried to abduct an idea she knew was mine from three years ago and call it hers. No Mary, you heard it from ME first.

Texas still can't count, there are now 468 children, and the MSM can't read, as most stories still list another number, 463 and 464 being the most popular choices.

The Main Stream Media, which includes Fox News, CNN and every major network are afraid of the story and hope it goes away. Probably by way of some spectacular crime being uncovered, so that they can ignore "all of the above."

My wife got a great Mother's day gift. Her daughter graduated with "High Honors" from the University of Montana . More →

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Mental Health Workers Lament hits AP.

Nazis! Stalinists! Fascists!  (UPDATE, Vox is on it.)

The Houston Chronicle - "'The entire MH support staff was 'fired' the second week; we were sent home due to being 'too compassionate,' one report stated."

A friend of mine an I noticed this story early in the morning. It's getting worse. Check down in the blog. Genocide. Kudos to the San Antonio Express-News. More quotes;

"That worker was among three who reported that CPS workers lied to the mothers. Several said the mothers were denied access to their lawyers.

One MHMR worker made a claim almost identical to one appearing on an FLDS Web site after the mothers were given a choice to return to the ranch or stay at a battered women's shelter. Most mothers went to the shelter, 'because they were told they would be able to see their children if they did not return to the ranch,' the worker reported.'

More.

'The written statements were given to the Hill Country MHMR board anonymously because the workers had signed agreements not to disclose what they had seen, said board member Jack Dawson.

Dawson, a Comal County commissioner, said the employees had the right to provide information to the board and said his release of copies of the statements to the Express-News didn't violate their confidentiality agreements.

'What they saw was so horrendous, they had to report it to the board,' Dawson said. 'We were taken aback. I have every confidence their stories are accurate. Our people are professionals, with years and years of service in their fields.'"

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Government has no Business, "Minding Your Business."

Hey, if you blog, if you read to this blog. LINK to me. I will continue to link to you, like I do here.

This is great stuff at the "Abolishing Socialist Slavery" blogspot.

The principle is simple: governments have no business "minding your business."

Follow the link.
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CPS Threatens Mental Health Workers with ARREST over FLDS.

The travesty continues.

From the "Express News" of San Antonio - “I have worked in Domestic Violence/Sexual Abuse programming for over 20 years and have never seen women and children treated this poorly, not to mention their civil rights being disregarded in this manner,” one wrote. “It makes us all wonder how safe anyone is who has children.”

Yeah, the CPS is helping alright.

"Mental health workers sent to emergency shelters in San Angelo last month to help care for the hundreds of women and children removed from a polygamist sect's West Texas ranch have sharply criticized the Child Protective Services operation, saying it unnecessarily traumatized the families.

The CPS investigation of suspected child abuse and its decision to seek state custody of all 464 children punished mothers who appeared to be good parents of healthy, well-behaved and emotionally normal kids, the workers said in a set of unsigned written reports made at the request of their regional governing board after a briefing Tuesday.

A few described tensions quickly developing between the two groups of workers, including threats by CPS to have interfering mental health staffers arrested."

It's worth reading.
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A Fascist by any other name.

There is so much in this article I could almost write a post analyzing every paragraph. I strongly suggest you just read it. I found it by following a link in the American Bar Association Journal. You might try going there too and searching the site for the term FLDS.

From "The National Post" - "I must be clear. I am an evangelical Christian. I believe that marriage is a lifelong covenant of love and loyalty between one man and one woman. Further, adults who, with or without consent, engage in sexual acts with children should be severely punished. Pedophilia and polygamy are morally wrong. God declares them wrong, and He does not change."

Of course, I'd like to know where Mr. Reaume bases this assertion, but don't let that scare you off. Read on.

"If, however, God is out of the picture, morality changes with the times. When personal values trump transcendent moral teachings, attempts to distinguish right from wrong are hopeless.

This should concern everyone — liberals and conservatives, heterosexuals and homosexuals, Protestants and Catholics, Jews and Muslims, theists and atheists. All must be alarmed. Do not think moral relativism must be contained in the realm of sexuality. It can easily spill into any area of life. What is free speech today could be hate speech tomorrow. What is an acceptable religion today could be an illegal cult tomorrow. What is sexually permissible today could be punishable by death tomorrow. It depends on who calls the shots. If God is not higher than the secular state, then the state becomes our highest power. The state, then, has unbridled power to define and enforce its own morality. Inalienable human rights become state-granted privileges. That sounds like fascism."

Seriously, that's just one highlight. He's all over the place with observations that can't be categorized by these excerpts. Read it. Comment on his article. Do it now. More →

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LDS Chickens, are coming home....to roost.

I almost wish the Republicans do select Romney as running mate just so the issue will come up in the election. Besides, Romney is a skilled campaigner. McCain could do worse.

The Deseret News - "Last month's raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church in Texas could prevent Mitt Romney from being picked as the Republican vice-presidential nominee, one of his longtime supporters says."

Mitty, you got a lot of 'splainin' to do. More →

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Texas to test "Polygamy" law.

Of course not all Polygynists are LDS or FLDS or some "mormon splinter group." The practitioners and advocates that I know are all "Messianic" Jews or Mainline Christians. Messianic Jews by the way do not believe in calling themselves Christian, but believe as Christians do, that Jesus bar Joseph of Bethlehem by way of Nazareth is the Messiah. Then there is the "House of Yahweh."

The Dallas Morning News - "73-year-old (Yisrayl 'Buffalo Bill' Hawkins) was arrested and indicted in February – less than two months before raids on the Eldorado compound – charged with four counts of promoting bigamy, made a felony in 2005 after the unrelated FLDS group arrived from Utah.

'This will probably be the first case of its kind,' said Callahan County Attorney Shane Deel, who began investigating the House of Yahweh after taking office in 2005."

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff may be reluctant to prosecute polygamy as bigamy, saying the law is likely "unconstitutional" but nothing scares Texas.

"Shannon Edmonds, director of governmental relations for the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, believes that the Callahan County case will be the first prosecution of a polygamy suspect under the strengthened bigamy statutes.

'They can be very difficult cases to prove because there is no CSI-type evidence. There's no blood. There's no DNA,' Mr. Edmonds said.

And for groups like the House of Yahweh, there are typically no marriage certificates filed in the courthouse."

I can tell Shannon right away what the problem will be, there is no law against having a mistress or two or three and because this strange group does not register it's marriages, Texas is not free to regard men and women who engage in "private sexual conduct" as married. They have the additional problem that sect members are denying that the women are wives. In any case it's a free speech issue. I can lie if I want to in my public statements not made in court, in fact political lying is protected speech. If sect members will not "own up." Callahan County Attorney Shane Deel says;

"If we thought the worst thing [Mr. Hawkins] had done is to have however many wives he's got, it might not be such a terribly big deal. But he's destroyed the lives of hundreds if not thousands of people, and so that makes the criminal conduct we can prove a bit more serious."

The don't like him so they're using the polygamy issue to get him. Why?

"If he goes to prison, I think the sect itself will slowly but surely dissolve," (said Deel).

Strike at the leader and the flock will scatter.

To be fair the article does seem to indicate that the sect has more to be worried about in terms of real abuse than the unrelated FLDS. Nevertheless, there are striking parallels in terms of Texas law enforcement and CPS behavior. The case though may result in a text for polygamy laws that may render the relationships legal in the sense that the law must recognize that such people are married, and cannot discriminate against a polygamous marriage.

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FLDS woman explains name confusion.

Texas complains that FLDS members are deceiving them with a deliberate confusion of names.

The Houston Chronicle - "Jessop denied any of the parents intentionally misled investigators. But her explanation of her own name would confuse anybody.

'I say my name is Gladys Lindsay. They say, "It's Gladys Jessop." My legal name is Gladys Jessop but because I answer to Gladys Lindsay they say I am lying.'"

Um, this is easy. It's cultural. In Korea for instance if your name was Park Chung He, we called him Mr. Park (pronounced "Pak") or President Park. In a world of Jeffs, Jessops, Barlows and Steeds, Gladys distinguishes herself by using a less common additional name. Instead of calling herself Gladys Lindsay Jessop, she shortens it to Gladys Lindsay. Mystery solved. Texas gets angry and calls her a liar. Sounds like they don't speak the lingo. Of course the writer of the article sides with the state of Texas and calls her Gladys Jessop;

"For women who have shunned the modern world, Sarah Steed and Gladys Jessop have become surprisingly adept at navigating it.

Connected by cell phone to the attorneys and CPS workers they speak with daily, they have become overnight experts on the ins and outs of Texas family law. They wear out their phone batteries each day, using the phones to determine their children's whereabouts and their legal rights.

Gladys, the combative one who often speaks for Sarah, says they've learned they can say no to investigators and reporters.

'It's none of your business,' she said, when asked if she was in a polygamous marriage."

Oh good for her. Hey, aren't these controlled and intimidated women? Dumbed down with drugs and inbreeding and repression? That answers why is the writer so surprised they can function so easily and stand up for themselves.

The San Angelo Standard-Times seems to think it's important to mention that the kids are on par in education with others.

"(Delma) Trejo indicated the children's education level is on par with that of other children their age."

Surprise, surprise.

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The Law of Unintended Consequences, Child Molestation and the FLDS.

I'm not the first to the table with this observation, but I did eventually come up with it on my own, to a rousing chorus of "duh" from those that had already figured it out. The "Virgin Population Clock" makes a joke out of it, estimating that 16% of the world's population has "lost it" at 14 and if you're 21 and a virgin, you're in an even bigger minority, 14%.

Another treatment I saw had teenage girls even more active than teenage boys after a quick start by the guys. Check the stats at Child Trends Data Bank which pretty much explains why one in four girls have a venereal disease. Page 4 shows that 20% of 9th grade girls (14 year olds) are "sexually active," 31% of the 10th (15), 41% of Juniors (16) and 52% of Senior girls (17) are "sexually active." Sexually active as defined will scare you even more. It means sexually active (had intercourse) in the last three months. The report also declares on page 1;

"Teen pregnancy rates, birth rates, and rates of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) in the U.S. are among the highest in the industrialized world."

12% of all pregnancies were teenage girls, and the declining rate of teenage pregnancy was due primarily to contraceptive use. By contrast 31 of 53 FLDS girls between 14 and 17 "have been pregnant" which means they do not adhere to the mantra of using birth control and since I'm betting they also do not have STI's, they have been in a "committed relationship." As compared to the population on the whole, we have evidence that 58% of FLDS girls have been sexually active at some time between 14 and 17, and 36% of the girls between the same ages in "the world" have been in the last three months. The "Virgin Population Clock" chuckles that the FLDS numbers are pretty normal.

The gripe centers on several "mores" that have crept into our society and into our laws. We want all kids to go to school, hopefully to college and marry at the age of about 24 or 25. By then says the Virgin Clock, less than 5% of the population are virgins.

We have constructed laws that criminalize older people or "adults" from having sex with people under our rising age of consent, but we have decriminalized sex for those people within about three years of one another.

Like it or not we've told our children to experiment with sex, to be careful, and to use the occasional abortion and birth control, preferably barrier devices like condoms to prevent disease and wait until they are tarnished and older, to marry.

Compare this then with the way the FLDS does things. Marry everyone in the community off, early. They stay for the most part in committed relationships not withstanding the occasional "forced divorce" and the "lost boy issue." The women are healthy and intelligent. The children are in good shape and the FLDS does not have a big issue with promiscuous sex and experimentation like we do out here, in the real world.

We have, without intending to, created a world of harlots and whore mongers. Damaged people some of which may have life eroding diseases, higher incidence of depression and a host of other ills.

What is our complaint? If polygyny is acceptable, we're complaining that older men in search of chaste women, of necessity end up marrying some younger ones. We shy away and call it all "creepy" and "abusive" but the women at YFZ ranch have yet to show that they are abused or feel the practice is "creepy." There is anecdotal evidence to the contrary of course, but exceptions prove general rules, not establish the contrary.

The real complaint is not that what the FLDS do is creepy, but what they do destroys the vision that the social engineers have. Men and women, side by side, as equals. Realizing themselves, having careers, and in the process, destroying many good things. On balance, do we do more damage with our lifestyle, or do they? More →

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Your Religion is Dangerous.

What about Freedom of Religion?

Deseret News - "Texas child welfare attorneys say children were removed from the YFZ Ranch and should not return there because its residents live as one big family and all have the same dangerous belief system."

Your Constitutional Rights are void. The State approves religion, don't you forget it. I'm going to be graphic. The state of Texas allows 14 year olds to marry, I have found and noted the records here.

"The court filing also states that a polygamous environment 'would make a 15- or 16-year-old child highly vulnerable to individuals who are willing to exploit them and take advantage of their child-like qualities.'"

What is it? One in four or one in five girls have a venereal disease? Texas is telling you this. "Your Fifty Year Old Penis will harm a 15 year old Vagina and the brain at the other end."

80% of the teenage boys who use their penis to impregnate a teenage girl don't marry that teenage girl.

They are also saying that if you do marry legally, you can't have a 15 year old as well as your wife, but the quarterback of the football team can have every cheerleader.

I'll bet not one FLDS girl has a venereal disease. I'll bet their partners all married them. More →

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Texas to the FLDS: "We're the legal parents of the children..."

Just that. The Salt Lake Tribune.

Didn't you just say?

"No child will be forcibly immunized, insisted Patrick Crimmins, a CPS spokesman.

'If a child refuses to be immunized, we're not forcing any children to be,' he said."

The Houston Chronicle. More →

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Texas STILL can't keep track of the Children.

Texas has had the kids in custody now for quite some time. And the count keeps changing. First it was down in the low 400's and the number keeps getting quoted in news stories that the reporters don't verify facts on thoroughly enough to know that the number has changed, and changed, and changed again;

The Salt Lake Tribune - "(Texas) includes a new count for the number of FLDS children in custody - 468 - which is four children more than its last announced tally."

I don't know about you, but I don't trust the state to be able to keep the kids best interests at heart, when they don't even know where they all are or have some way of keeping track and identifying them. When you can't count them, you aren't even qualified to keep a day care. Teachers take attendance.

We find in the article that in part, some of the delays in the case have been due to FLDS intransigence.

"Until women from a polygamous sect 'unequivocally' identify their offspring, they have no standing to contest a judge's decision to remove the children from a West Texas ranch, state officials argue.
The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services contends in a new court filing that FLDS mothers have engaged in a "conspiracy of silence" that forced the en masse hearings they now want to redo."

You know the old joke, Paranoia is a rational response, when everyone is trying to get you. FLDS women are exhibiting extraordinary backbone resisting the urge to break ranks and grab their own kids. Early news reports speculated this would happen and then there would be a "break" in the case. Except, there is no case yet.

Here's the dirty truth. If everyone lines up and give DNA and tells the truth about parentage, not just the moms but the dads. If they give dates and times. Someone will be arrested. That's a near certainty. We've already discussed how it is that if the group is large enough, and all behaviors and evidence examined, there will be a crime. That's why CPS is so cocksure regarding the safety of it's position.

What the FLDS is doing at this point is saying, "No, we're not telling you anything else, tell US what you think happened." In doing so they're asking for specifics. What crime? Against whom? Once Texas declares that then the FLDS will respond, as is their right that they have fifth amendment rights as do we all, and you'll start seeing moms identifying their children. Either that or a DNA test will be submitted to quickly and the crime discounted and then everyone comes and gets the kids.

Pilate examined Christ because he was told he was a criminal and ended up saying, "I Find No Fault In This Man." The FLDS are not Christ. Neither are we. They are ordinary people with rights in this country and it's time we started giving them those rights. No one should be asked to submit to what amounts to a life audit prior to getting their children back. The FLDS is holding out for specifics and showing great discipline. The kind Generals pray for.
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Stolen Children and Stolen Elections, Florida in 2000, Texas in 2008

My wife knows that one of the things my head will explode about is the 2000 Florida Recount. The mainstream media has settled into allowing it to be described as "stolen" by George Bush. Never mind the fact that numbers don't behave the way they did in the Florida selective recount. Few of you I am sure remember the initial margin in the election which was about 5000-5500 votes. For George.

During the recount, which was occurring ONLY in one county in Florida, a travesty of incredible proportions, the margin kept shrinking. It got down almost to 200 votes. Numbers don't behave that way. Recounting the same sample over and over and over again honestly doesn't produce a result more and more to your liking each time, not when the result was so clearly unfavorable the first time. Yet the counters kept counting, much like the Texas CPS keeps sifting. One was confident that they would find 2500, no, 1000, no 800, no 220 more votes if they just kept looking, The Texas CPS is likewise sure that if they just keep extending the game, they'll find a crime.

In the case of the Florida Recount, after a few days I began to say to myself, "This must stop." It wasn't of course, the Mainstream media was complicit. The "TROOF" that came out of that election was "George Bush Stole It" and that TROOF still lingers and stinks to this day. Cynical leftist politicians play on it all the time.

So how is the Texas FLDS CPS situation similar? The "TROOF" in the minds of most Americans is that the FLDS is abusing children on a massive scale, and that Texas is doing it's job, instead of the truth, which is that Texas is bumbling and stumbling around and hasn't found a thing. Gore didn't win, there is no Sarah, Texas has found no crime. Texas doesn't know what it's doing.

The Standard-Times-"(Tom) Goff described the situation as "still fairly disorganized."

'The problem now is, we have no contact person at CPS' if paperwork is incorrect or profiles the wrong child, Goff said. 'When these orders are wrong, have varying information, we have no contact to go to. They're not putting the birthdates on the service plans. You're sent an order, and you're not sure if it's your child.'"

They same disorganized Keystone Cop routine is occurring here. Texas doesn't know what it's doing, beyond being experts at the bureaucratic shuffle that keeps the ball in play. They don't care. The whole object is to keep the kids, and keep the game going until Texas gets what it wants, namely, they find a crime. In Florida, the hand recounting was going to keep going until by some stretch of the imagination, there was a count where there was at least one more vote for Gore, than Bush. Do any of you honestly think the recount would have kept going to see of there would be in some future vote, more for Bush, than Gore?

Both the Florida Recounters and the Texas CPS have no reason other than their desired result to continue. In the case of Florida we had well connected moneyed up highly skilled lawyers on each side. Gore brought suit to keep the recount going. Bush kicked it up to the Supreme Court to stop it. Time was of the essence. Florida needed to certify an election by a date and we needed a President. The Supreme court stepped in and our collective cookies were saved. We had an election, we got a President and life went on.

This business in Texas MUST STOP. It's not an election in this case, it's families and children. Texas cannot find the result it wants but will continue, as evidenced by the above quote, layering on Bureaucracy, adding new players, bring those new players up to speed and keeping the kids. In case you don't know the damage to the children is ALREADY irreparable. Ask Wilford Black. Oh, you can't. He was around for the 1953 version of this travesty, but isn't talking to anyone.

Unlike 2000 there is no champion for the families, pushing the resolution time table up, insisting that Texas must have a crime, to continue. There is a time element here. It's not that damage might occur if Texas does not do it's job right, it is that Damage Is Occurring and only MORE of it will occur if this is not stopped.

This MUST STOP. This country does not exist to provide Bureaucracies the time to get their acts together. If in fact we have learned ANYTHING about Bureaucracies, they will NEVER get their act together. Waiting for Texas to sort things out means waiting FOREVER. On their own Texas will never say, "Oops, sorry, here are your children back." They will never back down from the position they have taken. There is a human element here. You're LOOKING at him. So just as in 2000, SOTUS stepped in and stopped what amounted to a coup d'etat in progress, someone somewhere must step in and stop the child abuse, by Texas, that is going on NOW. More →

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Talking Back to Western Attorneys General

From the Deseret News;

ST. GEORGE — "The attorneys general for Utah and Arizona agreed Thursday that Texas was right in its removal of hundreds of FLDS children from the Yearning for Zion Ranch near Eldorado, Texas, more than a month ago."

Yes, and Texas still wants us to believe there might be a Sarah too. Similar statements of sincere belief were made by justice systems all over the country right up until the point that DNA evidence freed people from death row. Don't think a Bureaucracy's highest ranking officer is going to get there or stay there by saying "well dang, I think we/they really went overboard" when referring to their department or a similar one from which they may need cooperation in another state.

Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard - "There was one person with control over the whole structure and kids were getting hurt."

Yes, and that one person was? You've already had the trial and determined "kids were getting hurt?" I'm not aware of a child that has come forward and said they are getting hurt. He goes on to say;

"I think they are rapidly coming to the conclusion that it's an inherently dangerous place and there aren't adults there who are sufficiently powerful to stand up to protect the children,"

But Terry Secrest just said that the mothers "All seem strong and independent." Excuse me, but just how strong and independent do you need to be?

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff chimed in;

"Shurtleff said the Texas raid on the FLDS people occurred because 'some polygamous leaders have put their people in harm's way.'"

There it is again. Confidently talking as if there was a crime and a guilty party. It would be one thing if there was a dead body and they were confidently seeking a suspect or holding one and talking up their guilt however, there is no crime. What Texas saw when they entered the YFZ Ranch is not Prima Facie evidence of a crime. I'm reminded of the Monty Python "Bring out your dead" bit in "Holy Grail" where the dead body protests the exaggerated reports of its demise. Most out there in the world around us still think the Texas CPS saw a crime, they did not. It remains significant that existing law enforcement agencies could not find a crime to prosecute and it's now about a month and a half later. Instead Texas punted to a special prosecutor. Shurtleff continues;

"Instead of cooperation they've engaged in manipulation, distortion and lies. It's unfortunate so few are giving a bad name to so many."

Again, guilt before a crime has been found. Typically when you're in an argument with an unscrupulous opponent, they quickly try to divert attention from their own misdeeds, by accusing you, of what they just did. The above statement is a perfect description, of Texas. All this bravado is discounted by his next remark;

"We assure you we do not plan a raid (here) to end polygamy. We are not going to do that. I don't care how many talking heads on TV tell us to 'cowboy up' and be like Texas, we don't believe that's the answer."

Interpretation? "Between you and me, Texas flew off the handle and we're not going to do that here in Utah." This next bit is good;

"And yet, many members in the audience, which included hundreds of people from various polygamous groups, said they were not convinced their lifestyle is safe from prosecution."

Ya think? I'd be a little nervous too when politicians do what they do best, which is talk out of both sides of their mouth and wait to see how the chips fall. When they fall, they won't remember saying the things that reassured you. Shurtleff continues;

"'We didn't make the law,' he said. 'I can't enforce that law (against polygamy) except as an additional crime with something else like child abuse. You're not protected in that. You stand up and say you're proud to be a polygamist and people look down on you. Well, you made your choice. I'm telling you it is a crime. I don't know how to answer you when you ask, what will we do when we get more resources?'"

No, you can't, because it is an impossible law that would fall apart if tested in court. When the Supreme Court of this country has struck down "cohabitation" laws, how do you define Polygamy for the purposes of prosecution? You can't. He in fact, admits this in another article written about the same meeting;

The Salt Lake Tribune - "My belief is that the somewhat ill-conceived bigamy statute needs to be revised," he said. "It is outmoded [and] I doubt it would stand constitutional scrutiny at this time."

So when Mark declares it is a crime, and says he won't prosecute, he's saying it's not a crime. When he gets more resources what he will do as they did in Texas is single out Polygynists and persecute them. Tax evasion, welfare fraud, child abuse. Remember that if you live together in a group, your CPS knows if it rounds up and keeps a large enough number of people, they will find something. Texas tells us that they will move quickly to secure custody and delay procedurally forever until they can rake through every shred of evidence collected when they DIDN'T know of a crime, until they do find a crime.

The Arizona Attorney General said;

"(T)he 1953 Arizona raid on Short Creek, the historical name for Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., was a 'severe mistake.'"

Decoded? "We're waiting to see how Texas turns out, and when we come for you we won't make the mistakes they did."

"(Don) Timpson, along with several members of the audience, called for Utah and Arizona to decriminalize polygamy and to 'come out and get to know us.'"

That's what we need to get done. Legalize it. That means though, that Polygynists will have to toe legal lines to practice what they preach. I'm all for it. Just as long as we can do the same things monogamists do, polygynously.

Mark Shurtleff says, wait until after the election;

The Salt Lake Tribune - "As in previous years, some audience members asked the attorneys general for help in pushing for decriminalization of polygamy, which they said would do more to open the closed communities than any prosecutorial action.
Shurtleff's advice: 'Wait until after the election' to bring up any such proposals."

Translation, I'd rather not deal with this in the upcoming election cycle. Wait 'till next year. The last thing I need is another special interest group complicating the agenda.

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Law is Vague in FLDS Case, says Ken Driggs.

I have two rather florid posts I have not published yet that claim I have been wrong on major points. Honestly, I haven't been able to get an answer yet, one way or the other, and this may be why;

The Austin American-Statesman-"Ken Driggs, an Atlanta lawyer who is an expert on the FLDS and the legal history of polygamy, said any prosecution of FLDS members for multiple marriages would be difficult because of the law's vagueness, questions of jurisdiction and the community's refusal to testify in previous instances.

'They have a tricky case in front of them,' Driggs said."

You know, I'm NOT a lawyer, and I've been hollerin' just exactly that. Vague law. Jurisdiction, no friendly witnesses. Told ya.
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Why a Polygamist (Polygynist) is your friend.

I know most of the conservative Christians out there are from the monogamy only side of the aisle. For you, marriage is "one man, one woman, the way God Intended." But look around you. Marriage definitions in society at large are already breaking down. You and I know, as Monogamy only advocate, and Polygynist, that God defines marriage, not society. Just as Bible Believing Christians do not accept that abortion is NOT murder because courts say it is not, we also do not accept that society can tell us what marriage is. If society says gays can "marry", that doesn't make them married.

So we are trapped between the ideal of marriage and what the world insists that marriage is, or should be. I daresay a lot of you think that there really isn't any such a thing as divorce. I have good friends who think that even if you go get one, you're still really married, in God's eyes. I do think there are reasons to divorce, and that it doesn't necessarily bind you to stay unmarried for the rest of your life. You see. There are differences.

Face it. The world will have it's due. They're going to interfere with WHEN we think we can marry in terms of age. They're going to tell us that men and women are equal in divorce. They're going to tell us that divorce can occur for any reason. They're going to tell us pretty soon that two guys can marry a gal, or three gals can marry a guy and then those two groups can marry each other.

The BEST that can be done is to draw a line in the sand now. Up until now the only version of a "marriage contract" has been a prenuptial agreement and in many ways that is what a marriage contract is. You can't stop someone from leaving a marriage. I learned that all too painfully. You can claim they're still married to you, but even if in God's eyes you are, they'll behave as if they are not.

So the Polygynist (Polygamist) is your friend. The MONOGAMISTS friend. We want to define what marriage is to us, and in the process, we'll allow YOU to define what marriage is to you. Why is it for instance, that I can't agree in advance who gets custody? Suppose you are a monogamist and you say "the only way out of a marriage is adultery" and there is no adultery and your wife leaves you. She's going to get the kids. What if, however, you had entered into a legal agreement that automatically assigns the children to the wronged parent? She leaves you for some hot guy at the coffee shop, you have an agreement that says she can't. She CAN, but she loses things like property and custody in the process.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Society is at odds with us in the marriage agreement. Why can we not incorporate as many of the things we believe into a contract and have that be the predictor of the direction of the marriage? If your husband goes gay or bi and wants to bring his new friend into the relationship, he cannot. You've previously agreed. If he suddenly starts reading my blog and decides, "By Jingo, I think I'll get me some more wives," he can't, unless you and he agree to amend the agreement together. If you leave, the settlement of property is already lined out, in the marriage contract.

Society changes what the contract is and believe me, you are in a contract with your spouse as the winds of fashion blow. It may not have been possible to divorce easily in such and such a state 20 years ago, when you GOT married, but your spouse can go here or there now and divorce for reasons you did not think they could before. Protect yourselves. Line up behind the concept of Marriage Contracts. More →

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FLDS Child Custody Judges Appointed.

From GoSanAngelo;

In addition to 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, who has presided over the case, the following judges will preside over the hearings, court officials said this morning:

• 119th District Judge Ben Woodward
• 340th District Judge Jay Weatherby
• 391st Dustrict Judge Tom Gossett
• Retired Judge Marilyn Aboussie,former chief justice of the state's 3rd Court of Appeals.

This is a logistical move.

"The status hearings, required by law to be held before June 5 - the 60th day after 464 children were removed from the YFZ Ranch northeast of Eldorado - are usually perfunctory, little more than the state's Child Protective Services agency presenting a proposed plan the parents of removed children would be required to follow to win their children back and any objections from the parents' attorneys."

CPS has to do this by law. Unless some good legal help for the FLDS can find some way to gum this stage up, it will just be an exhibition of state power. More →

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