Before the Session (or not - UPDATED)

This afternoon, I go before the session, informally

, to discuss my views on marriage. I hardly think this will be the showdown that changes the mind of the whole denomination over polygyny, but I am seeking membership in this church with the acknowledged understanding that I don't agree with their views on monogamy as marriage.

UPDATE, delayed, a week, maybe two? Who knows.

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Dr. James Dobson Steps Down

I am by no means, a fan. I think he was politically blinkered, and the very name of his ministry promoted theological error.

Christianity, something Dr. Dobson and I both share in common, is not focused on the family. Not in the slightest. It is focused on the LORD. Focusing on the LORD on average, should have beneficial effects on the family I believe, but only if the center of attention is our God. You do not come to God to fix your family. You come to God and he may purpose in that to fix your family.

Colorado Springs, CO - "One of the common errors of founder-presidents," Dr. Dobson said, "is to hold to the reins of leadership too long, thereby preventing the next generation from being prepared for executive authority. I have wanted not to make that mistake with Focus on the Family, which is why I stepped back, first from the presidential duties six years ago, and now, from board chairmanship. Though letting go is difficult after three decades of intensive labor, it is the wise thing to do."

One of the most destructive lies that Dobson drummed ignorantly away at in the public arena was this one:

"God created marriage as a loyal partnership between one man and one woman."

He was also obsessed with homosexuality. I sternly and strongly reject homosexuality in the fellowship of Christ, but outside the Church, God judges. To rail and rant publicly against gays is folly. What, after all, does one expect from the lost? Appearing on secular television shows, answering in the public forum as to the rightness and wrongness of homosexuality is foolishness. "Gay gene" or no, they are as God made them, and if God elects that they be saved, he will deal with their error. It's a "Whisper on a scream and doesn't mean a thing." There is no record in New Testament Christianity of marching in protest in Rome, or Athens. We have enough planks in our own eyes and should deal with matters inside the church.

Dr. Dobson's perpetual promotion of the lie of monogamy as marriage has helped keep the church blinkered. Like anyone on the establishment side of the church and marriage issue, I'd love to take him on man to man. But they won't do that. It's a no win scenario for Dobson and others. It's a losing argument so why have it with me and call attention to that inadequacy or me for that matter?

Hat tip to Professor Howard Friedman, Religion Clause.

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Jay's Thoughts on Stuff. Polygyny

A fellow traveler, and a book.

"By the time I had accumulated more than one hundred pages of Bible passages (paraphrased to aid my own understanding) and typed notes, I was convinced: Stivers was correct. Not only is most of today’s church incorrect about polygyny, but they are dead wrong about a whole host of issues related to marriage and family."

Check out his blog, I know I am.

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Marriage, and a tale of four Websites.

Which site would you expect to be the largest? The Presbyterian Church in America? The Orthodox Presbyterian Church?

Mine? The Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America? The very fact that I am asking the question suggests that perhaps I top the list. In terms of how all of us rank in the United States (a rank found at the bottom of the Alexa Page) I came out on top.

The Modern Pharisee - 130,097
The Orthodox Presbyterian Church - 138,138
The Presbyterian Church in America - 190,047
The Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America - 842,749

I haven't been selective. These are the major Presbyterian and theologically conservative denominations in the United States. The Associated Reformed and Hanover Presbytery all rank a lot lower and don't have a national rank for this country. To be fair, the "Anchor Church" in the PCA, the nationally known "Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church" outranks my web page by a little bit (update, that rating changed over night to me being slightly ahead). The Late Dr. James Kennedy preached at Coral Ridge. Church members are far more likely to turn to their own church's web page than to that of the denomination. The web pages of "ministries" also do a lot better. Gary Demar's "American Vision" does better than mine.

All of these sites have substantial design and support dollars behind them. They have staffs. Aside from Trina, I've had no help, the content is all mine, except for quoting material found elsewhere on the internet.

The point? I have often been told that the subject matter that I care about and place in my blog is of no concern to people. Yet here it is, outranking the two denominations that I have attended over my years of wandering across this country. I've been told this at forums I frequent. No one cares, yet the subject matter tends to attract the greatest numbers of comments and views of other subject threads in those forums.

Why do you suppose that is?

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On being a Polygyny advocate.

The truth is, I'd rather NOT be. It's a rather thankless job. In all other arenas most of my doctrinal views fall into some part of the conventional spectrum. On some issues I am at far extremes, such as my brand of predestination, but it is still in the realm of the conventional.

I take the unpopular but nonetheless relatively conventional view that there is no tithe, that there is no sabbath observance and so on. Again, all minority views but well worn, tired even, and comfortable to occupy. I still GIVE so in not tithing it isn't so much noticed that I'm not for tithing. I go to church when others do, so in showing up on Sunday it's hard to detect me as being an non sabbath observance type.

It's in my marriage views that I take the heat, and no, I don't like it. I've learned to stand on point and take it, I've even learned to enjoy it at times in a way, but it is ultimately wearying and I can't escape it. It boils down to the fact that I really have little choice.

Polygyny, like predestination is one of the most consistent doctrines in scripture. The more I dig, the more solid the footing gets, not less. With few people in the fray I can't exactly STOP being the way I am. If I were going to quit I would have to do the almost impossible in church, which is say ABSOLUTELY nothing. That doesn't work in a conservative reformed venue.

I remarked a while back on FLDS women that when asked about being married to more that one man they hesitated, looked very bothered and eventually came up with saying "I don't want to talk about that." That is the response of an honest person that doesn't wish to answer the question. I am quite like that myself when I am in church, and in the aforementioned reformed venue, questions never cease.

"Where's your wife, what do you do for a living, do you have any kids, where are they now, your daughter doesn't look like you, your wife is CATHOLIC? what does your son do, why did you get that divorce" and eventually, out it tumbles. "I don't want to talk about that" or what I REALLY think and then the fight is on. Conservative Reformed folk are not shy, they dig, and they don't let you keep secrets. For years in my last church I deliberately came in late, sat in back, and bolted early, but eventually I got barred at the door and the questions started.

I tried "no comment" at work, the last job I had, about three days into the job and three days later I didn't have a job. It's really not popular when someone asks you a point blank question. I just wish people wouldn't ask so many point blank questions. They really don't want to know the answers.

So I'm stuck. My Christianity is not a hobby or pastime for me, it's not a "lifestyle choice" and my religious beliefs are not a "personal religious experience." I can't just lay them down and pick them up when it works for me. So in answer to the question of whether or not I enjoy this, the answer is decidedly no. I would prefer to sink back into the background, debate minor points of scripture, throw money into the offering plate and show up every Sunday and live out the remainder of my life quietly. It's just not working out that way. More →

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Gary Demar's fascination with the FLDS and Polygyny

Over at American Vision, my old acquaintance Gary Demar has this to say:

“Once the Bible is rejected as a standard for moral values, then everything is up for grabs. It’s getting more difficult to argue against polygamy after the way consensual homosexuality is being legalized.”

I do not agree, and we’ve talked about this, that abandoning the Bible is requirement for supporting polygyny. I disagree entirely. I agree that legal homosexual relationships make it hard to refuse polygynists or polygamists. I’d be happy to debate you publicly rather than privately on this subject.

When I was "coming out" with my views on polygyny, my mother connected me again with Gary and we debated the topic briefly, and privately on the phone. Gary's eventual exasperated response was "Why don't you go just get another wife?" This is because he had no refutation.

I remind him AGAIN of that conversation, and point out that he has no business whatsoever claiming publicly that polygyny is against scripture when he privately has been unable to offer a refutation. Gary, any time you want to have the debate I'm ready, but this time it has to be public. More →

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