Thursday, August 06, 2009

What have I been doing on the Polygyny Front?

Funny you should ask.
Check at the Pharisee's other blog, Vermont Polygamy.

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Jam Inn said...

Wake up, Hugh, wake up! Polygamy is an affront to the Christian nations, forever has been from Christ Jesus time until now.

The Pharisee said...

Since you point to Christ Jam, make that case. From Christ.

Jam Inn said...

Hugh my Scriptural references will not be the ones you are most familiar with, read Ephesians 5:6-20 and Matthew 18:15-20. In Ephesians take particular attention to verse 14,"...and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light". Likewise, Matthew note 19 and recall if you and your wife payed together when you vowed your marriage.

Finally, Mark 10:1-12 pay emphasis on 6 to 8 verses.

The Pharisee said...

You'll have to make a point. I'm pretty sure I know what your point is, but I won't make your argument for you Jam, this is not Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

demoiselle said...

You spend more time talking about polygyny than you do witnessing about Christ to those who are lost.
We are commanded to preach to Gospel to all the nations. It appears the Gospel message has taken a back seat to the polygyny message with you. Perhaps it is time for you to change your priorities. Just my observation.

The Pharisee said...


Fascinating premise. I think if you walk through my whole blog, you'll find Christ preached. In addition, I just spent 2 hours witnessing to a man this after noon.

I am reluctant to speak of these things because if you claim things for the purposes of impressing others, you have your reward. The Gospel IS preached. The word does not return void.

There is also the matter of living a life after one is saved. We are saved INTO a life on this earth. We are not saved into a pyramid marketing scheme where we create New Christians/Evangelists who then go out and create more Evangelists who have no idea what kind of life to lead in front of the world, but only know how to be salesmen for God.

Jam Inn said...

My sense of your response is that you are resistant to reading a few Scriptural passages? Paul in Ephesians cautions us to live in the Light of Christ. I assume you wife and you took vows together and prayed in a religious ceremony? If so, Matthew 18:19 states,"Again, I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father". You did make marital vow to your spouse and became man and women? Mark 10:8,"...and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh".
Hugh I presume your wife and you are are now one in Christ, Yes?

The Pharisee said...

Ok Jam,

I've read scripture in excess of thirty times, cover to cover. I've read it completely, more than once, in the NIV, KJV, NASB and the ESV.

I've read good portions of the New English version and the authorized Catholic version along with the Revised Standard.

I think I've read it all.

So when I say I've read it all, I have a keen sense of what's not in it.

One of the things that is never described in scripture is a "marriage vow."

It is also clear in the vast expanse of scripture that the concept that the "Two become One" is a bond that excludes all others, is a delightful, romantic, and Western/Roman cultural myth.

Jam Inn said...

Hugh, you need to think back to your wedding day and if you took a vow and made a binding commitment with the "heavenly Father". Well, Hugh you either did or you didn't? Was there a pledge about 'foregoing all others'? If you and your wife prayed together for the Almighty's blessing of your marriage then your binding
commitment has been made. If you remain in the light that Christ gives you then you are to avoid darkness and recoil from sin. I say this to you in the Christian spirit of Matthew 18:15," If your brother sins, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother".
Now think back to your wedding day Hugh, did you commit yourself in marriage or didn't you?

The Pharisee said...

I wrote my own vows and they included nothing about monogamy Jam.

In addition, though I believe that the term "Heavenly Father" is a perfectly acceptable way to describe the LORD, it is generally the way that the LDS describe God, and I am not LDS I hope you know. I am Orthodox Presbyterian.

Jam Inn said...

Well Hugh that is why I quoted you Scripture and verse(s), that way you can read it, contemplate and pray for yourself. I think you will see the passage in Mark reads, '...heavenly Father'. Hugh your splitting spiritual hairs with me and I can not witness to your mind and commitment on your wedding day. You know the answer to what I am messengering to you. I would reflect on these passages, be honest with myself and seek ministry if it's a struggle. God Bless

The Pharisee said...


Just as long as you don't think you're appealing to a "Latter Day Saints" sensibility, I have no trouble with the phrase "Heavenly Father" and said so. I just hear it most frequently from and to the LDS and FLDS.

As for quoting verses, you quoted snippets, the only relevant one being that two come together and form "one flesh." The quaint notion you seem to be appealing to is indeed a charming one, but not supported by scripture. It is the idea that "one Flesh" is the equivalent of marriage, which then also is the equivalent of monogamy.

This is a cultural concept, it is not found in scripture.

Jam Inn said...

Hugh there is more in Ephesians 5: 6 thru 20 and Matthew 18: 15 thru 20. I am not you minister nor your conscience but my sense is you no longer wish to honor your marriage and that your wife's say in this matter does not agree with yours. You know what is right, the truth in your marriage and you need to stay in the light of Christ. To thine ownself be true and honor your marriage and commitments.

The Pharisee said...

My wife agrees that polygyny is Biblical but doesn't want to engage in it. That's fine, I doubt I ever will Jam. She has made a condition she wishes me to fulfill in which case she would consider it.

I think you mistake me as wanting to engage in polygyny. That can't be, from my point of view, a goal. It objectifies all the women to which I might be married to simply wish to be polygynous. For me to engage in it, I would have to buy a separate home for my present wife, acquire the wherewithal to get a second nearby residence for my next wife, find a next wife, secure parental permission, etc.

I'm 55 and worse than flat broke. Unless you're FEMALE and proposing to make yourself available to me in marriage, and wealthy and I would WANT to marry you, then it's academic.

Furthermore you are not advancing an argument based on the verses you refer to, you're offering them as some sort of "obvious" proof. I assure you, I have answered all the proofs in the last 15 years I have seen associated with those verses. I'm just not going to try to imagine which ones you're planing to use, and answer them on the bet that those are your arguments.

Either you make the argument, and engage me on the subject, or you don't.

There are a number of reasons I think polygyny should be accepted by the Church in the west. One is that we preach around verses in the Old Testament that involve the numerous polygynies found there as if they are evidences of sin, but they are not. This has the same effect as accepting evolution does on the veracity of scripture.

In addition we preach an egalitarian permission for divorce, and there is no such permission for women in the church in a believing marriage. One does not have to practice polygyny to understand why it is important.

You should also know that I was polygynous four about five and a half years before becoming monogamous again. I had to divorce my first wife who was exceedingly rebellious, for adultery.