Tuesday, June 30, 2009

"Soft Treatment?" Bitter women continue their Anti Polygamy "Tour."

I try to ignore my neighbor(s). Living in close quarters such as we do in Montpelier, you pretty much have to. Or not. Let's just say it's better to ignore your neighbor(s) when it comes to the little everyday things they do that annoy you, but don't seem to annoy them. I find that if I ignore them in fact, and let it go internally, I very quickly forget, roll over, and go to sleep.
For instance, the neighbor to the right of my apartment chose to have a party a few weeks ago. I can't even tell you the day because I forgot about it, rolled over and went to sleep. It was only when the neighbor to the left of me pounded on my wall for the second time in a month (perhaps less) that I recalled that instance. Not even of my own accord, the landlord mentioned how noisy they had been and then I remembered. You see? I forgot. So with that set up and apparent digression I move on to Flora (et al) and the recent "Tour of Hate" towards polygynists, complaining of "soft treatment" of the FLDS, by the press. Eh?
The San Angelo Standard-Times - "(K. Dee) Ignatin said Americans should not be fooled by what she says is the media’s incorrectly favorable portrayal of the polygamist lifestyle. The women’s tour was prompted in part by featured treatment of the YFZ Ranch group on the Oprah Winfrey Show.

'It’s true of the Taliban and it’s true of the FLDS,' Ignatin said. 'Every instance of polygamy in any culture always forces women and children into poverty, restricts women’s choices, travel, and education, leads to the molestation of both boys and girls, and results in child brides.'

Ignatin said she sees no difference between a burqa — the body-covering garment worn by Muslim women in Afghanistan — and a prairie dress, the trademark garb of the FLDS women."
You know K. Dee, I don't see any difference between a burqa and a "prairie dress" either, except you can't go anywhere in some countries without one, and you, Flora and your traveling companion Kathy Nicholson aren't wearing them. And you're in San Angelo. Some "force," some "restriction." By comparison it's no force and no restriction at all. Every member of YFZ had a chance to "escape" over the last year, and to my knowledge, none of them have.

So back to my wall banging neighbor. It strikes me that she is remarkably similar to these three. She can hear what's going on to a limited extent in my apartment, mostly when I do the dishes. Yup, big oppressive male, dominating his mousy wife, preaching polygyny and even practicing it in the past, waling away on the dishes, sometimes as late as midnight. She can hear the dishes hit the edge of the big iron sink and it bothers her. Bottom line is that she doesn't want me doing the dishes past 10pm because she's an author that likes to work in the morning. I'll spare you the details because I'm trying to accommodate her but I sometimes work late.

"Shannon" as I'll call her, doesn't like the way I'm doing things. She's let it slip that she's "intimidated" by me even though I've been nothing but pleasant to her in the few personal encounters we've had. She followed her first "wall banging" communication with an immediate trip to the "Government" (the apartment manager) giving me no chance to employ corrective measures and prompting a "talk" from the manager who wishes to keep the peace. Apparently, keeping the peace is entirely my job and the dishes piling up in the sink is the price I must pay to keep my neighbor happy, which in turn keeps the apartment manager happy, which in turn, by implication, keeps me happy. Except it doesn't. Here we have the problem.

"Shannon" and the Three Shrews/Fates are not really much different. They all want to reach into someone else's space and meddle with what's going on there. It has been suggested that I do the dishes early in the morning because "Shannon" is up then, but then I'm doing the dishes when my wife is sleeping. No problem to them that we're inconvenienced, so long as we're doing things the way they would want it done. The issues are larger, but it's really very similar. Flora, Kathy and "K. Dee" have their bed shoved right up against the wall of my kitchen just like my neighbor, they can hear what's going on in there, and they CANNOT STAND IT.

Gals. Move the bed to the other side of the room, put the headboard up against the other wall, get an extra pillow and SHUT UP. It is none of your business. Leave me alone, leave the FLDS alone. I had enough of women in life who hover near something that bothers them or press their ears up against the wall straining to hear the sounds of that which bothers them and then complaining about it. That's all that's really going on here.

K. Dee's complaint along with her two companions is that society cannot stand the noise of poverty coming from YFZ. Excuse me? Must we all have Nintendos? XBoxes? Cell Phones? A lot of prominent people started poor. Definitions of poor vary.

Restriction of choice? Ladies, that is the definition of life. I wasn't born into the Kennedy family. I was dragged overseas with my missionary parents, I was forced to go school in someones house or in a school basement. I was cruelly sent to boarding school at age 13, I moved all over the world, I constantly had to make new friends. It was awful. Or not, or was. It doesn't matter, that was the hand dealt to me, it is the hand dealt to the children of the FLDS. It's LIFE. You start where you are and go from there. Someone has to raise you. Every choice restricts your next choices. Unless you propose we are all raised in some sort of Lebensborn program or "Skinner Box" so that we're all raised exactly the same was so as to not "restrict" our choices. Really what's being said here is that the three want to tell us what our children's choices should be. Lebensborn. Skinner Boxes. It's ok to restrict choices as long as the choices are evenly restricted, and the choices that the three "Fates" choose.

The Three Fates then descend into the usual litany of big lies. Molestation of Children. Molestation of Girls. Molestation of Boys. Never mind that the incidences of "molestation" at YFZ were confined to the hated practice of "Child Brides," all of whom are old enough now to make up their own minds and have made up their minds to stay with the program so to speak. Never mind that the molestation of boys was not discovered at YFZ and is purely confined to the anecdotal stories of ex members. Never mind that the practice of "Child Brides" was widespread in this country as recently as the last 50 years. Never mind that President Grover Cleveland met his bride when she was an infant, and he was an adult. Never mind that he was her guardian. Never mind that Lorretta Lynn was married at 13 and a mother 4 times before she was 18. It's now horrible abuse, sick and twisted. Pedophilia. Rape. Evil. Lock the FLDS up, throw away the key. All for simply not "advancing" at the same pace that the rest of us are. We've changed, in our lifetime, and they haven't. Buy Lorretta's records. Go to her concerts, shoot Warren Jeffs like a dog in the street.


These three "Fates" can just move the bed across the room. Face the headboard to the other wall, bury their head in the pillow, and go back to sleep. It's really none of their business and we all have to put up with neighbors, and what our neighbors are doing might really not be so heinous after all.

There's nothing to see here.

Move along.

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David said...

I wonder if K. Dee has ever run into any of the (200,000+) Haredi Jews of Borough Park, NYC? The FLDS dress looks downright provocative compared to what they wear.

Oh yeah, they also have their own separate community and are overwhelmingly on public assistance, too:


The Satmar Hasidim share what they call a deep mystical connection to Kiryas Joel. They were led here by their founder, the Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, who saw in it the ideal place for his followers to raise large families away from the influences of the outside world....

Mrs. Greenfeld agreed. “People don’t understand the conception of our people, of our religion,” she said. “There’s no government or land or any other authority that can stop us from having babies,” she said.


Someone get K. Dee over there and rescue these poor Jewish women from themselves!

Betty said...


Why should she drive thousands of miles away from home, when there is a problem in her own back yard? Because she's Jewish? She's a Texan and a US citizen and you are basically saying to her "Go bother your own kind. You don't belong here." ,

What a nice guy. And Christian, too, I suppose.

The Pharisee said...


I suppose the point is it's NOT in her backyard. It's in someone else's backyard. The FLDS back yard.

The FLDS are people's neighbors and they appear to be very quiet neighbors. The people around them, from near, and not so near appear to be straining and craning their necks to see what's going on and when they can't, they mount raids on no evidence to find out.

That makes it someone else's business, and not theirs. They should pack up and go away. Leave them alone. NO ONE, and I repeat NO ONE AT ALL, LIVING AT YFZ, FELT ABUSED. If they did, they would have turned State's evidence by now.

Betty said...

If it's meddling to question your neighbors, then how meddlesome is it to question "neighbors" thousands of miles away? You and "David" are saying that being Jewish is more of a commonality than living in the same time zone or voting district.

The Pharisee said...

"David and I" aren't saying anything. I said something, on my blog. David made a comment. I have no idea who David is.

I've let David's comment and observation pretty much stand as it is.

My post on which you are both commenting is saying that the neighbors at YFZ, near or far from Jews elsewhere, or Amish or Muslims or whomever, aren't in need of meddlesome busybodies sticking their ears to the wall trying to find out what's going on.

Statistically, YFZ was a low order abuse environment from which no complaints were coming forth. A year later no one at YFZ has awakened from their own special brand of Stockholm Syndrome to turn against their religion and the ranch and it's leaders. The short answer to this, is that they aren't hostages/abused people/captives. They are convinced, true believing, willing participants. Right down to 14 year old Merrianne Jessop.

Did I miss her birthday? She may be 15 now for all I know.

Since everyone seems relatively happy with the arrangement it brands K.Dee, Flora and Kathy's complaint as personal, not systemic.

Since it's personal, why the dickens are we involved? Why not just leave them alone? Are you really so sanctimonious as to suggest that our great grandmothers, many of whom were married to older men at similar ages to the girls of YFZ were sexually abused by Pedophiles?

I'm saying this is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. It is therefore none of your business, and none of the three Witches either.

Go home.

harley said...

Mr McBryde
Ive read you blog for awhile, although Ive never posted here. But to be honest, the last couple topics of your diatribe got my dander up.
Considering the fact, we all have our own opinions, and matter a fact, none mean all that much to anyone else.
Im going to give you mine. First of all, your complaint about women taking on a cause to protect and respect children as being bitter is plain old slop in a bucket.
Being married myself for 40yrs, with kids and grandkids, I know how hard it is to be a parent. But I also know how easy it is to love and protect children from abuse.
Second part of my opinion is this. Why aren't men standing up and takin on this fight against abuse of children?
Have the men in this country lost the balls it takes to stand for something this important? By your own words it seems, you don't have any. Men want to be the heads of their households, but they don't want to take the reigns to be the head.
Is it not important to you Mr McBryde that 1 in 3 children are assaulted every year. Regardless of race, or religion. Is it not important to you, that most kids are molested by parents , siblings, or friends of adults?
Do you ever look in the newspaper? Being a polygamist doesn't exempt a person from assaulting or abusing a child. For the most part, because polygamist are so insular, even those who aren't affiliated with religion,it makes such abuse easier.
Its a damn shame, women have to take on this issue without support of most men. Oh, I support it, but Im probably one in 100,000 that give rats ass about it.
However, I respect anyone, male or female who take up a cause for children in any manner.

harley said...

PS According to the Bible, the children are everyones business. At least according to my bible.

The Pharisee said...

Harley, if 1 in 3 children are assaulted every year, as you say, then statistically YFZ was the wrong place to look, as I pointed out.

With 1 in 3 every year, you're declaring that most children are assaulted, period.

Either your definition, or the definition of those claiming this statistic is over broad, or the cause is hopeless.

I've never said that being a polygynist, Harley, makes someone more or less prone to child abuse, but there was no support at YFZ for the notion of one in three children being assaulted every year at YFZ.

I repeat, no one left the "faith" of the FLDS in the last 15 months, even though they have had ample opportunity to do so. It does not appear that they perceive what is happening to them in the day to day conduct of their lives, abiding by their faith, is abusive, or abusive enough to break them away from their faith or their faith group.

Bottom line, the girls/women/children of YFZ don't want these women's help. They should just go away then and find someone willing to accept their help. Find some place to be effective, they are not being effective in Texas, and they are running roughshod over the religious freedom and right to choose of those they seek to "help."

Last, I am a constant thorough reader of the Bible. If it governs anything you say or do, you should know that it clearly puts children under the charge of their parents.

harley said...

Mr McBryde, had you not had your head up your ass all this time, you would know there were children who DID NOT return to the ranch. They were given back to a parent,and are safely away from the ranch forever.
You are so busy raising hell because of your own middle age crisis, you can't see the forest for the trees.

harley said...

PS, and according to scripture the parents are accountable to God. That would especially frighten me if I had abused a child and used God as an excuse for doing it.
Im quite ashamed of CPS of Texas, because they did find abuse, and chose to non-suit cases where abuse was well documented.

The Pharisee said...


First, clean up your phrasing and your language if you're going to post here.

Second, I don't believe I ever said they all "returned" to the ranch, I said they haven't left their faith or turned on the FLDS. If you know of some example of either, please cite it.

You don't deal with the facts of the case which is that the incidence of abuse at YFZ, if you count all the men under indictment now, you don't have a statistically large sample of persons being abused.

My guess Harley, is that if you go to church, your church is as rife with such incidences as YFZ was, or more. If you're kids school was investigated, it would be a more disgusting hive of scum and villainy than YFZ was. Your attention are directed to a place where the "problem" was not very severe, and where no one even wants your help, or the three "Fates."

Betty said...

If following the news re the FLDS makes me and others into witches, does following the news re Iran make you a warlock? Why should you be concerned if some other country has election fraud or cuts off access to journalists or shoots down protestors in the streets? They aren't YOUR people, so mind your own business.

The Pharisee said...


Betty, in Iran there is a demonstrable outcry. In addition it is demonstrable that they were wronged and defrauded.

There is NO ONE at YFZ that was asking for anyone's help of the sort that YOU wish to "provide" for them. 15 months later, this is STILL the case. No one is "crying out" and NO ONE is asking for your help.

That makes you a witch. Begone.

Riki said...

I just love Harley, who is obviously a CPS or CASA shill. They were so badly beaten in court on the YFZ case that they'll take anything as a "victory," including ranting about the children who didn't return to the Ranch. In a way, it's kind of sad because it shows just how little effort they made in trying to understand the FLDS. For the record, yes, many children didn't return to the Ranch, but it wasn't because they didn't want to. There were many reasons for not returning, and NONE of them were because the family left the FLDS. In fact, many of the children who initially did not return to the Ranch are there NOW, so stick that in your pipe & smoke it, Harley.

duaneh1 said...

Hugh, I don't have much to say here as you and Riki pretty much said it all. However, that is a terrific photo, love it! "The three Fates"...LOL!!
Tell us, which ones are Flora, Kdee, and KathyJO? They all look the same to me.

The Pharisee said...

How do you tell them apart in real life?