Wednesday, February 11, 2009

Still no court date for Allen Steed. The INCONVENIENT TRUTH of the Warren Jeffs persecution.

The forgotten man in the "Rape" of Elissa Wall is the man who actually had to have raped her, for Warren to be guilty of anything.
Allen is the ex husband or ex unwanted love interest, however you want to look at it, of Elissa Wall. After a flurry of motions last fall, in which Allen's attorneys appeared to gain the upper hand, it looked like a trial was going to be scheduled, and then the whole thing went dark. No trial, no pretrial motions. Nothing.

Nothing at all.

Who is Allen Steed? Quite simply he is the only candidate for the primary act of rape that has to have been committed, for Warren Jeffs to be guilty of Rape by Accomplice. The only person with whom Elissa claims to have had "non consensual" relations on two occasions is Allen.

The reasoning goes like this.

Warren arranged the "marriage." Elissa did not want to marry Allen.

She and Allen had sex on many occasions but on two of them she did not want to. This forms the basis of her rape allegation against Allen.

Since Warren coerced Elissa to have sex with Allen in the form of a relationship the FLDS call marriage, those two encounters were rape. Remember that under Utah Law, Elissa was too young to marry Allen but Elissa was not too young to consent to relations with a man of Allen's age. Utah's law was written to state that sex can be consensual for a 14 year old if her partner is no more than 5 years older than she is.

Elissa does not contend there was a case of mistaken identity, namely, that some other man entered her bedchamber who she thought was Allen and forced her on two occasions to have sex with her. Thus, Allen is the only possible primary Rapist. If he did not rape her, no one did.

Warren must be said (as he has been) to have coerced Elissa into a situation where she did not feel she could effectively resist Allen. There is no record of Warren stating that Elissa had to submit to sexual relations with Allen if she absolutely refused to do so. Any preacher I know of would tell a wife that in general, she should consent to relations with her husband. Unless this advice is now going to be construed as accomplice to rape, Warren does nothing wrong in stating the obvious. Normal healthy marriages have sex taking place between husbands and wives.

In short, Warren only encouraged Allen and Elissa to have sex as part of a relationship he regarded as marriage and that both Allen and Elissa regarded as marriage. There was no mysterious third party that could have committed the rape of Elissa Wall, nor was there any plan on Warren's part for someone to rape Elissa. It's not like he planned a rape for which no one showed up.

Bottom line, no matter how you look at it, either Allen rapes Elissa or he did not. If he did not, then Warren couldn't have been even said to have conspired to do so. He would not be an accomplice to an act unplanned, and never done. He's not waiting in the getaway car for a criminal that chickened out on him. There is no crime, there is no plan to commit the crime, there is no getaway car. NOTHING happened.

Yet Warren is locked up in jail in Arizona awaiting trial on charges that are becoming weaker every day. The potential jury pool is being hopelessly conditioned to believe he is a slavering sexual animal and criminal. In the end, he may be convicted of something on the basis of his horrible reputation, while the reputation he has is manufactured by an act that will, it seems, shown to have never even been thought of, outside the minds of the prosecutors. Without Allen as Rapist, there never was a crime in the first place.


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22 comments:

yutthehay said...

AMEN to that Hugh. There is a fact that people should know and everyone wants to overlook, and that is that Warren Jeffs din NOT arrange that marriage. Remember that Uncle Rulon was the Prophet at the time of this marriage.

TxBluesMan said...

And yet Warren is still a convicted sex offender...

The Pharisee said...

And yet you speak as if conviction amounts to truth Blues. Texas justice is ample proof that this is not the case.

You, as you always do, ignore the fact that for Warren to be a rapist, Allen Steed MUST be one as well.

Since you treat conviction as absolute truth, please tell me then. Hypothetically blues. What happens if Allen Steed is NEVER convicted, would you then say Warren's conviction lacks substance?

If not, say why. In other words, show your work.

TxBluesMan said...

Why? There is no distinction between principle and accomplice.

Warren was tried and found guilty.

Steed's trial (or non-trial) is immaterial to Jeff's status as a convicted sex offender.

The Pharisee said...

As I stated in the other thread blues, Allen must have interpreted Warren's remarks in a particular way which resulted in him raping Elissa, or there wasn't ever even a plan to rape Elissa.

What you don't plan and don't do makes you innocent of any complicity.

TxBluesMan said...

Except for the fact he is a convicted felon.

The Pharisee said...

Yeah blues, you're like a prosecutor who has a conviction, but the DNA exonerates and he says "yeah, but he's a convicted felon."

At that point it's only a technicality. A tragic one, but a technicality nonetheless. Please address the consequence of an exoneration of Allen Steed, not in terms of the legal fact of Warren's conviction, but the fact that it strikes a key piece of evidence against Warren, down. Just as if a rapist were shown not to have contributed the DNA belonging to the actual rapist.

Yeah.

They're convicted. They're felons.

But they very quickly get pardoned or receive new trials where prosecutors no longer wish to prosecute.

A new trial of Warren Jeffs would not convict him if it were shown that no rape had even taken place.

TxBluesMan said...

You really don't understand the legal system, do you?

An acquittal of Steed is NOT a finding of innocence. It means nothing to Jeffs case.

The Pharisee said...

In this special context Blues, it does. It may not have the legal definition, but as I said, there is no dispute as to the basic facts of the case.

The sex took place according to both parties. On both occasions. That is stipulated.

For it to be rape, the Jury must believe that Elissa Wall did not give her consent. If they believe that, then he is a rapist. If they believe him, then he is not a rapist.

Warren's conviction turns on the fact of an established rape of Elissa Wall. The jury's statements say he controlled the situation. If the situation he controlled did not amount to an actual rape of Elissa Wall, then Blues, this case is in fact different.

I'll wager you right now, that if Allen is tried, and not convicted, that Warren Jeffs conviction will not stand.

If you believe otherwise, you need to say so. This blustering about "he's a convicted felon" is insulting. You act as if I do not get that. You also act as if I do not get a great many things. You're a fool if you truly believe that I do not.

I've a proposed wager on the table. How do you answer to that?

TxBluesMan said...

I've already said so, you just don't comprehend it.

He will stay in prison for a long time.

No reversals, no pardons, no parole.

Once he completes his Utah sentence, he will start serving another one, and so on.

Again, it doesn't matter if Steed is acquitted - legally it has no bearing on Jeffs case.

I'm willing to wager that he gets convicted in at least three more trials, in Arizona, Texas, and in Federal District court.

The Pharisee said...

I'll note that you did not answer.

Ben said...

Warren Jeffs is the personification of Satan. He deserves to rot in prison until God sends him to hell.

The Pharisee said...

Whatever you believe about Warren Ben, the problem still is how they "got" him.

It involves the destruction of personal rights in such a sweeping way that all of us will be affected.

Meg said...

Uncle Rulon was the prophet but was in ill health at the time and Warren was "speaking" on his behalf. Uncle Fred should have been tried as well because he is the one that brought this up to Warren due to her being a "problem" child and wanting to marry her off to get her out of his house. Uncle Rulon told her to follow her heart and it was Warren that told her that her heart was wrong and she was to marry Allen. Rulon had doubts when he found out how old she was. Warren is a sex offender in his own right he was just never tried or convicted of his own transgressions.

The Pharisee said...

Other than the conviction, I do not agree that Warren is a "Sex Offender in his own right." That conviction is now on shaky ground with Elissa Wall's testimony on the verge of possible impeachment.

So yeah, he's a "sex offender in his own right" for now, but I've noticed the "crowd" you hang with has a tendency to act as if the reinforcing acts of the Courts are holy writ.

What happens if Warren's conviction is overturned? Do you equivocate and mount a different horse, mid stream?

Pete and Nicolle said...

He raped her. He raped her. He raped her. He broke the laws of morality and of the land. She was 14, barely out of puberty. He was 19. HE RAPED HER.

The fact that a Taliban-like cult of adulterers and pedophiles exists in the heart of our country committing welfare fraud and worshiping a self-proclaimed "prophet" who is really just organizing a ring of sex-slaves for disgusting, perverted old men makes me positively ill. And all this based on the religious doctrine of a CONVICTED FRAUD Joseph Smith.

The fact that there are people on the internet even attempting to justify this criminal rapist behavior in any shape, form, or fashion makes me positively homicidal.

The Pharisee said...

Then why don't they try him?

Pete and Nicolle said...

Because the sick, rapist asshole and his lawyers are using delaying tactics. Unfortunately, our legal system is very flawed and can be slow to justice when lawyers who are funded from the abundant coffers of the FLDS know how to clog the process.

Frankly, if it were up to me, justice would be served to these child raping degenerates with a pair of gelding shears and that would be that.

The Pharisee said...

That's a lot of anger, even for two folks. You do realize that all the "rape victims" are now adults and were hostile witnesses as far as the prosecution was concerned, don't you? Are you also aware that Arizona has already ruled the evidence gathered to be "unlawful" and has suppressed it?

Pete and Nicolle said...

It's justified anger - and if you're not outraged by what was done to this woman when she was a child, then there is something really wrong with you. A lot of criminals aren't convicted of their crimes. It doesn't make them any less guilty, it just means that they've escaped accountability - at least on the Earthly plane. The fact that Elissa is a grown woman now is irrelevant. She will be scarred for the rest of her life for what was done to her - read her book.

I'm not just angry, I'm FURIOUS that there is a tax-funded community of pedophiles who are cheerfully oppressing women and children and getting away with it. I don't understand why the laws of our country that are supposed to protect women and children from atrocities like this are being flouted. Warren Jeffs is nothing but a deranged cult leader. Thank God they got him before he started passing out the Kool Aid.

Pete and Nicolle said...

It's justified anger - and if you're not outraged by what was done to this woman when she was a child, then there is something really wrong with you. A lot of criminals aren't convicted of their crimes. It doesn't make them any less guilty, it just means that they've escaped accountability - at least on the Earthly plane. The fact that Elissa is a grown woman now is irrelevant. She will be scarred for the rest of her life for what was done to her - read her book.

I'm not just angry, I'm FURIOUS that there is a tax-funded community of pedophiles who are cheerfully oppressing women and children and getting away with it. I don't understand why the laws of our country that are supposed to protect women and children from atrocities like this are being flouted. Warren Jeffs is nothing but a deranged cult leader. Thank God they got him before he started passing out the Kool Aid.

The Pharisee said...

I don't think you get it, these "pedophiles" have now been shown to have been indicted or convicted on knowingly falsified testimony.